niram
Small flame
Posts: 42
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Elders
Dec 18, 2005 12:24:31 GMT 1
Post by niram on Dec 18, 2005 12:24:31 GMT 1
I don't think ANY number of elder spots is fair, officers need to take part on DKP raids which means there's always someone that should know the tactics. If people don't know about the run, they'll learn. Really, we don't need elders to make a run go smoother, elders get the position by going on lots of raids so the chances are those people will be in the raid anyway. Queue jumping isn't a good reward and we shouldn't be looking for ways to make a bad reward acceptable, find something else to reward people with.
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Elders
Dec 18, 2005 14:22:59 GMT 1
Post by Aldandil on Dec 18, 2005 14:22:59 GMT 1
It seems like we will have to agree upon disagreeing here, because I think the idea of elder spots is a good one, especially if we could implement it a bit more. There is still a need for raids where we introduce the instances to new players, but if we are to make progress, we need to have a few without 50% green items. Elder rank is not really a reward, as far as I can tell, it's more like a status (status may be a bit of swenglish, hope you understand what I mean) of someone who join raids, and have good eq.
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 0:05:41 GMT 1
Post by bobsonn on Dec 19, 2005 0:05:41 GMT 1
hey all, this is the first time i read all this and its a lot of good points which i cant all remember @ once. first thing: it was my idea to create rank elder. cuz i think its more fair to let acitve and good players take spots in raids then to let in the one who rushes fastest to the forums. also they can help create more succes in guild (which will, i think, reduce guild leavers). rest: its hard to make elders for us. we got 120 members at the moment. and i cant remember all and their equip and playstyle. its important to not make it "friendspolitics" (trasnlates from dutch, hope u get it) we picked runa caroline calidriza, cuz at the beginning of rank elder they stoud out above the rest. furthermore carol and cali both helped in guild raids as well. they got good equip and dont really need to go to ubrs and stuff. still im pretty sure if u ask them they would like to help the guild. an other thing is that when u pay much attention to helping the guild is that most of the times only healers and mages are needed. when i am in a raid. its allways "no more warriors. no more rogues, no more hunters" most of the time. since they arent needed that much they cant get into raids and wouldt "help" and dont get rank elder. thats all i want to relply untill now. good posts btw all of u. we all want to get our guild better and we officers arent gods summary: - rank elder: its not about the first who rushes to the forum.
- its stil about gear and playstyle. someone who is like GOGOGOGOGOGO omfg i cant wait any longer.
prolly isnt an elder
- its hard to make elders cuz we cant allways watch everyone and we dont know who participated in smaller guild raids a lot.
thnx for posting all greetz bobsonn
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 9:11:49 GMT 1
Post by dlux on Dec 19, 2005 9:11:49 GMT 1
Well I think we are all talking into the same direction now ... so that is one positive point ...
Just one thing I would like to state ... Ive been into almost all raids that I was able to attend, and that is all of them except those on mondays (and even then I switched my radio show to another date sometimes ... Fe. tonight) still I dont get the elders rank ... Now I do understand that, cause there are already 2 hunters with that rank ... (still I overdps both off them tho :-p)
A solution to this (and to the thing niram posted in his last post) would be the following: Lets take an example ... We post topic for a ZG run ... 3 hunters needed on the mainlist ... Example 1. : - First 3 posters = 1 elder and 2 members... - next the second elder comes in and he gets on spot ... last member posted gets on the backup list. BUT he needs to sign up at least 24 hours before the run starts ... (important so that also the members can plan there evenings days etc etc ... ) - raid goes on with 2 elders and 1 member
Example 2 - 3 members sign up first for the raid all 3 get on the mainlist - after that, 2 elders sign up ... wich would mean that 2 members should go on backup ... My proposition would be that only 1 elder gets on the mainlist (if posted 24 hours before raid run) - raid goes with 1 elder and 2 members
This is to avoid that ppl get high hopes for joining a raid but then at last minute gets kicked out cause an elder wanna join...
Also I would like to point out another thing that is kinda annoying imo ... ppl signing up on the forum, but not showing up at the raid ... Unless there is some good excuse, ppl should get a penalty for that ... like -10 dkp for showing up late and -20 for not showing up at all (or something like that ... ) Unless the warn us lets say 6 hours in advance ... this to get the members really commited to the guild and his guildruns and not some random signing up
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 11:12:09 GMT 1
Post by thomassil on Dec 19, 2005 11:12:09 GMT 1
some people sign up for the raid, but are more then 1 hour late. You can not blame the group taking backup players then. Ok you may have something more important to do at the moment, but when i'm an hour later then I won't join either because my place is taken and some other hunter makes good use of it.
Last time we did Zul'Gurub I were thrown dead with whispers from people OMG I am on the mainlist. We allready killed Venoxis by then. Also another priest came online and wanted to join. We only had three mainhealers. We tried it with that group instead of kicking someone out and did two bosses. Maybe it is not the smartest thing to say no to a priests offer, but I prefer to keep people who were on time and signed up happy. And if you guys watch our guildlist were having some priests in the low 50's and two officers are playing a priest to and maybe 'll even change my main when I've reached 60
Also when elders are late, then they're to late. It would be funny to see a plane waiting for a perso who is more then a hour late. It will just leave without the person.
The problem with a guild as ours is like a football team in Holland. We start to get better players, more used to raids. Blue gear and even some epics. We do a couple of runs, kill a few, gain some DKP, buy some items and then the transfers are beginning.
*Example like yesterday* One vision: were still looking for a leftback mage. And we have SUXCORZZ Epics EPics EPICS allz over ...: Ok I'm an ass, so I'm going to join. ...: *enters one vision* Welcome, Welcome, Hello, Welcome, Welcome. What website do we have??? OMG MC in an hour o boy epics !!!! One vision: Well you need DKP and at the moment we have enough mages, but if someone cannot come to the raid we maybe can let you play. ...: What am I to do in the meantime? One vision: You sit here and wait on the bench ...: ,,,,, But Epixx??? :s One vision: yes what about them, do you like my flashy armor ...: ... .... ... *After two months he posts on real forum"This game sucks, I can't get EPIXXORS, so BLIzzards suck ass and I'm going to cancel my subscription*
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 11:37:08 GMT 1
Post by bobsonn on Dec 19, 2005 11:37:08 GMT 1
i think the 24 hour rule is a very good point. then players dont have to wait 30 minutes and then find out an elder has taken spot. that thing or something simelar should idd be implemented. about the 3 signups and then 2 elders. im not sure yet. PS: we are xtra carfull in promoting hunters since we have 2 hunter officers. hope u understand
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runa
Greater flame
Posts: 123
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 11:38:51 GMT 1
Post by runa on Dec 19, 2005 11:38:51 GMT 1
As a player that almost never play pvp i like to plan in events as of schedule and it fits me perfect since i have a kid and all. What i can read here many have misunderstood what sharunos wrote in the original elder post. I am sure of that more elders will be added as we become more advanced guild and i hope that we soon can make MC in our sleep When we move on to "hard" instances like BWL and Ahn'Qiraj we need more elders. Why? Well, if the raids are gonna be succes we need experience from as many as we can, elders, officers etc. The more someone play the game and train the more succes, its easy to understand. I can feel that in many cases when we do raids its to much joking and to much fooling around that we loose focus and the maingoal....the maingoal is to bring down bosses so that we can earn epics. Its all bout getting better gear. I dont mean that we shouldnt have fun and joking BUT i think we should minimize it on raids. I have played many mmorpg's before wow, ive played starwars galaxies, dark age of camelot, everquest, Lineage 2. And i always play much pve and know the drill. I know that many players in wow are "younger" than in other mmo's and that can sometimes makes it harder. But i know that there is very skilled players that are very young iam talking about 12 years old with mega skills, they just have to learn focus etc then the age doesnt mattter imo. Play, play and play....that is the only way to be skilled.
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 12:09:56 GMT 1
Post by dlux on Dec 19, 2005 12:09:56 GMT 1
I understand that its kinda hard to give another hunter the elder status idd ... kinda obvious imo ... but that is why I wanna make shure I can get into as many raids as possible... If 3 member hunter sign up, and i´m even the second one on the list, there is still a change of not being on the mainlist, wich imo kinda sucks (talking bout ZG, cause most MC runs go on mondays, and as known, mondays are kinda difficult for me ) There can be 2 or more elders, if at least one gets signed up in time ... It sounds more then logical to me imo ... If you really wanna clear out the "experience" among the members, then I suggest to implement more ranks ... and also give an advantage to the ppl who are full blue (even with some epics) towards the still "greenys" that just turned 60 ... TBH im completely sick of ubrs and strat and scholo for now ... Might still do some if ppl need me tho ... We should at least "try" to take one new player every raid ... so they can get the experience in the instances. Nukie fe. never managed to get into ZG so far ... wich is a shame tbh ... Btw: runa cali and caro are all players in "needed classes" so there is not so much of a problem there I think ... even if they would show up 5 min before the start off the instance, they would prob still get in ;-) Its more for the "saturated" classes like hunters rogues and hunters that the problem really exists ... maybe start a tread to notice the ppl who would really DESERVE it ... like some sort of voting or something ... (just a suggestion, cause I can think of some ppl who kinda deserve it for there effort and cooperation inside the raids)
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runa
Greater flame
Posts: 123
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Elders
Dec 19, 2005 13:43:55 GMT 1
Post by runa on Dec 19, 2005 13:43:55 GMT 1
I'll fully agree with Aldandil on this, i also think experience is the main thing of getting the elder rank because as aldandil said: the future and smoothness of the guild/runs is based on this. anyway, its just that there are too many opinions that can be given on this point..... so i think that there dont need to be changed something cause else the will always be various discussions with everyone's opinion in it and we wont get a clear statement of things that are just as ment to be in this guild wheter some ppl like it or not. Greetz Good talking Fearoz btw! I had to say that.
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nautules
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If all else fails... read the instructions
Posts: 29
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 3:06:40 GMT 1
Post by nautules on Dec 20, 2005 3:06:40 GMT 1
If you really wanna clear out the "experience" among the members, then I suggest to implement more ranks ... and also give an advantage to the ppl who are full blue (even with some epics) towards the still "greenys" that just turned 60 ... I agree to that. I have a 100% blue equip by now. And to get that, I've been grinding instances (like scholo for LF helm over 35 times) numerous tmes. Doing that yielded a lot of good equipment and experience. It would seem unfair to me that a paladin (in my case) who just turned 60 with 80% green gear goes on a ZG just because he had the oppertunity to subscribe for that run earlier then me (becuz of work/university ect.) while he didnt spend half as much time on collecting gear as I have. But creating a perfect system is perfectly impossible. And so far I did not experience any problems like being denied to join for a raid several times in a row. yes it has happened, but I can live with that. Next time it will be my turn. And the Elder rank (in my opinion) is a very good concept. Bringing along elders on a raid run, allows those experienced players to teach the "bachelors" how to play an instance. It might be an idea to have an elder leading her/his class during a run if there is no officer in that class there. (f.e. an elder pala giving each pala buff instructions. Or an hunter elder answering hunter related questions instead of bothering the raid leadership with those "simple" matters). So, I like the system as it is now, accept the issue that Dlux mentioned. (newbie 60's taking places of skilled 60's)
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niram
Small flame
Posts: 42
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 12:45:24 GMT 1
Post by niram on Dec 20, 2005 12:45:24 GMT 1
We joke around all the time on vent, I've not really heard a serious discussion on there ever, but in 5-15man raids if we have the right classes we're nearly flawless. This isn't an army.
I'm not great, but that's ok because I'm not an elder. Yesterday we saw officers and elders not communicating, DPS'ing the second the tank gets to a mob, calling for DPS because a taunt is on a mob etc. If everyone follows these actions we'd barely be able to clear UBRS. The whole idea that we NEED elders on raids is a joke. We need people to attend, we need officers/leaders to read up on tactics (I'm not saying they don't, but as long as they do, there's no real requirement for people that have already done it), everything else comes with time and communication. We don't have a million members, it's usually the same people on raids, this is why we don't need elders; people will become experienced without being segregated from someone that is in the opinion of an officer, skilled.
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runa
Greater flame
Posts: 123
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 13:14:44 GMT 1
Post by runa on Dec 20, 2005 13:14:44 GMT 1
I'm not great, but that's ok because I'm not an elder. Yesterday we saw officers and elders not communicating, DPS'ing the second the tank gets to a mob, calling for DPS because a taunt is on a mob etc. If everyone follows these actions we'd barely be able to clear UBRS. The whole idea that we NEED elders on raids is a joke. Hmm...strange cuz i didnt see anything of what you just mentioned. The only problem was in the begining when we tryed convert to a raid. Me, neph, shar and some others tryed several times. Its a known bug.
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niram
Small flame
Posts: 42
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 14:01:09 GMT 1
Post by niram on Dec 20, 2005 14:01:09 GMT 1
You musn't have been looking as you were casting then Runa.
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 15:21:32 GMT 1
Post by dlux on Dec 20, 2005 15:21:32 GMT 1
I got the impression that it is heating up :-p
Pls all chill down a lil bit ;-)
The stuff that nautulles pointed out is VERY good ... about the "class leader" (wich I was in my previous guild) is a very good idea imo ... that way, "new" hunter could ask me all sort off questions about hunter quests, talents and other such things. This way they dont need to bother the guildleader every single time about it. And fe. the mage class leader could assign the sheeping targets, or the hunter leader could assign the viper sting hunter etc etc ...
More then 1 off these could bring confusion tho ...
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Elders
Dec 20, 2005 15:21:58 GMT 1
Post by thomassil on Dec 20, 2005 15:21:58 GMT 1
Tonight we will go on ventrilo again. I can use my microphone , have to calibrate it a bit, so say it if it goes like Zeons XD I'm having a cold so my voice might sound a bit strange and oh yes I will sing the banana song for u Guys ^^ Maybe elders aren't nescessary in the future but we can look after it...
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